[00:00:33.540] 
♪ Pollution, pollution! ♪

[00:00:16.371] 
♪ They got smog, and sewage, and mud ♪

[00:00:18.243] 
♪ Turn on your tap ♪

[00:00:21.400] 
♪ And get hot and cold running crud ♪

[00:00:23.629] 
♪ [piano playing] ♪

[00:00:31.014] 
♪ See the halibuts and the sturgeons
being wiped out by detergents ♪

[00:00:36.414] 
♪ Fish gotta swim and birds gotta fly ♪

[00:00:41.543] 
♪ But they don't last long if they try ♪

[00:00:44.386] 
♪ Pollution, pollution! ♪

[00:00:47.071] 
♪ You can use the latest toothpaste ♪

[00:00:48.271] 
♪ And then rinse your mouth
with industrial waste ♪

[00:00:54.229] 
♪ [piano playing] ♪

[00:01:01.360] 
♪ Just go out for a breath of air
and you'll be ready for Medicare ♪

[00:01:06.640] 
♪ The city's streets are
really quite a thrill ♪

[00:01:09.200] 
♪ If the hoods don't get
you the monoxide will ♪

[00:01:12.129] 
♪ Pollution, pollution! ♪

[00:01:14.440] 
♪ Wear a gas mask and a veil ♪

[00:01:18.080] 
♪ Then you can breathe long
as you don't inhale ♪

[00:01:22.400] 
♪ [piano playing] ♪

[00:01:29.520] 
♪ Lots of things there
that you can drink ♪

[00:01:32.043] 
♪ But stay away from the kitchen sink ♪

[00:01:34.680] 
♪ Throw out your breakfast
garbage and I've got a hunch ♪

[00:01:39.680] 
♪ That folks downstream
will drink it for lunch ♪

[00:01:42.557] 
♪ So go to the city ♪

[00:01:44.760] 
♪ See the crazy people there ♪


[00:01:47.814] 
♪ Like lambs to the slaughter ♪

[00:01:51.100] 
♪ [piano playing] ♪

[00:01:51.657] 
♪ They're drinking the water ♪

[00:01:55.886] 
♪ And breathing [coughs] the air! ♪

[00:02:04.240] 
[coughing]

[00:02:07.771] 
[music]

[00:02:49.600] 
American affluence today
contaminates the nation's land,

[00:02:54.360] 
water, and air masses faster than man
and nature's ability to cleanse them.

[00:03:02.440] 
The five million eighty-three thousand 
North Carolinians

[00:03:06.214] 
who live concentrated on a small portion

[00:03:08.480] 
of the nation's land area
must make a concerted effort to create

[00:03:13.440] 
a better public understanding of their
environment and an increased awareness

[00:03:18.840] 
of the individual and social
responsibility for it.

[00:03:23.840] 
With this objective in mind,

[00:03:25.400] 
the Environmental Education
Program of North Carolina

[00:03:28.440] 
has selected a
distinguished panel of citizens,

[00:03:32.560] 
health administrators,
and environmental scientists to discuss

[00:03:37.160] 
environmental health in North Carolina
and to present some of the problems

[00:03:42.040] 
and suggest some possible priorities
for a solution to some of the problems.

[00:03:46.960] 
And now I would like to introduce
our distinguished panel.

[00:03:53.480] 
- [Mr. McIntyre] We have with us today
Senator Hargrove Bowles,

[00:03:56.680] 
a member of the General Assembly, better
known to his friends as Skipper Bowles.

[00:04:02.720] 
Way up on my left,

[00:04:04.840] 
Dr. Maurice Kamp, Director of Health
for Charlotte and Mecklenburg County,

[00:04:09.240] 
North Carolina's largest
urban community.

[00:04:13.600] 
And Mr. W. E. Knight,

[00:04:15.200] 
Chief of the Air Quality Division
of the North Carolina Department

[00:04:18.880] 
of Water and Air Resources.


[00:04:21.129] 
And our moderator,
Professor Daniel Oakun,

[00:04:24.840] 
Chairman of the Department
of Environmental Sciences and Engineering

[00:04:28.760] 
of the University of North Carolina's
School of Public Health in Chapel Hill.

[00:04:37.520] 
Dr. Oakun, I'll turn the program over
to you and you can lead the discussion.

[00:04:38.800] 
Thank you very much, Ken.

[00:04:40.520] 
As we could see from this opening film
about pollution, many of the problems are

[00:04:48.480] 
characteristic of an urban
environment, an urban setting.

[00:04:52.320] 
As health officer for the largest
urban complex in North Carolina,

[00:04:58.600] 
Maurice, would
you care to tell us

[00:04:59.986] 
 a little bit about some of
the problems you face?

[00:05:02.960] 
True enough, the problems
we're getting are something

[00:05:04.960] 
the other communities in the
state can look forward to.

[00:05:08.000] 
And I believe that we'd get a much better

[00:05:11.200] 
idea by looking at a few pictures
of what problems we have to face with.

[00:05:16.520] 
- [Dr. Kamp] This is a very customary

[00:05:19.743] 
pile of garbage and
trash, very common all over.

[00:05:23.560] 
The sad part of garbage and trash,

[00:05:27.360] 
particularly the trash part, is that over
50% consists of paper that can be

[00:05:32.120] 
reused or recycled
for further use in industry.

[00:05:36.440] 
There's much work being done,

[00:05:37.920] 
and it is of some comfort to know
that the reuse of this material will make

[00:05:43.080] 
it a resource rather than a nuisance
and a health hazard as it is now.

[00:05:47.600] 
One of the dangers that occurs when dumps
are unsupervised, as most of them are,

[00:05:52.840] 
is the fact that they catch on fire.

[00:05:54.560] 
They're either set on fire or
they'll up fire spontaneously.

[00:05:58.400] 
Smoke arises, gives rise to air pollution,
as well as the unsightly and unhealthful

[00:06:04.040] 
conditions of just pure
garbage or trash on a dump.

[00:06:09.400] 
This is a private dump or
trash collection of a home.

[00:06:13.240] 
The thing of interest here is to see
the view of the tires in the background.

[00:06:19.000] 
Tires collect water,

[00:06:20.480] 
providing mosquito breeding places,

[00:06:23.471] 
and then if they are
set afire or catch fire

[00:06:25.960] 
produce a considerable amount
of very obnoxious air pollution.

[00:06:30.480] 
One of the common inhabitants of dumps is
our friend, or the friend of mankind, the rat.

[00:06:37.720] 
We see one advancing from his
hole to partake of a very nice feast.

[00:06:43.080] 
He's getting a little bolder coming
out now, as you can see him.

[00:06:49.640] 
Apparently enjoyed his meal
so well he invited a friend

[00:06:50.360] 
only this time they're enjoying some

[00:06:52.280] 
poisoned rat bait, which is only
part of controlling the problem.

[00:06:56.120] 
Rats and dumps go hand in hand like
many other items that we know about.

[00:07:02.640] 
This is a map of Mecklenburg County

[00:07:04.880] 
showing a hundred and sixty-five dumps

[00:07:07.814] 
unsupervised, unregulated in 1967.

[00:07:11.560] 
I'm happy to say that all of them have
now been cleared up and don't exist.

[00:07:15.600] 
But it is a problem that
is faced in our county

[00:07:18.480] 
and I hope has been taken
care of and is seen in other areas.

[00:07:23.360] 
Overflowing sewage lines can provoke
many types of health disabilities.

[00:07:30.360] 

An overflowing sewer, as noticed here,

[00:07:33.160] 
is one that can contaminate

[00:07:35.120] 
the groundwater and, in many areas,
can provoke health distress.

[00:07:40.280] 
Another view of this overflowing sewer is

[00:07:43.640] 
in a community that did suffer
a dysentery outbreak this summer.

[00:07:47.600] 
Whether this was the direct cause

[00:07:49.280] 
of the outbreak or not
we are not quite certain.

[00:07:52.440] 
But in this particular community,
drinking legal but unchlorinated water

[00:07:56.440] 
from deep wells, the inference of having
contamination in the face of construction,

[00:08:02.000] 
which does something to the subsurface
character of the soil.

[00:08:06.360] 
The analogy is there and I
think it is something to watch.

[00:08:11.240] 
Chemical types of waste products

[00:08:13.720] 
from industry are a very common pollutant
of many of our streams.

[00:08:18.480] 
The

[00:08:20.200] 
waste is unsightly.

[00:08:21.880] 
It also utilizes a considerable amount
of the oxygen in the stream

[00:08:26.229] 
 and leads very often to types of kill 

[00:08:30.040] 
of fish and other
animals dependent on the water.

[00:08:32.880] 
A septic tank here being pumped out to a
roadside ditch, right beside the road.

[00:08:39.720] 
Not approved, of course, not very healthy,

[00:08:42.160] 
but is a condition that is
not too infrequent.

[00:08:45.160] 
This is an experience of fish

[00:08:47.240] 
that actually have been killed as a result
of industrial and domestic waste.

[00:08:51.680] 
And we see here the effect
of a natural resource.

[00:08:57.720] 
A method of disposal of sewage
is one called the sand filter.

[00:09:03.400] 
If it is working and operating properly
it should be perfectly dry. 

[00:09:07.167] 
Quite obvious,

[00:09:07.960] 
with a collection of fluid on the left
side of this photo that it is not

[00:09:12.360] 
operating properly and provides not only
a health hazard from the effluent itself,

[00:09:17.200] 
but as a breeding place for mosquitoes.

[00:09:19.586] 
Another type of sand filter

[00:09:22.360] 
which is even a worse state
than the other. 

[00:09:26.520] 
Ineffective, it exists and
we know it is not rare.

[00:09:29.600] 
The bypassing of public sewers is a factor
that has to be taken into account.

[00:09:35.120] 
There are many reasons for this,

[00:09:36.640] 
none of them valid at this time.

[00:09:38.760] 
You see here the outfall bypassing
the public sewer, which is just beside it.

[00:09:45.920] 
A line often placed in a septic tank,
which does not completely or anywhere near

[00:09:50.440] 
treat sewage like it should, is shown
leading from the septic tank here and when

[00:09:55.560] 
followed to its end is shown leading
to a ditch in the field,

[00:09:59.640] 
providing partially treated sewage
to provide a real health hazard.

[00:10:04.720] 
People very often throw
all sorts of debris into 

[00:10:08.640] 
shallow and poorly flowing
streams in their neighborhood.

[00:10:11.600] 
This is what it looks like.

[00:10:12.960] 
You could imagine the smell.

[00:10:14.160] 
We know that it's an
insect control problem.

[00:10:16.480] 
Mosquitos will breed here.
As well as the disfiguring effects

[00:10:19.960] 
on the community itself.

[00:10:22.829] 
An additional view of a larger area

[00:10:25.400] 
of water for the providing of mosquitoes
and other insects that may grow.

[00:10:31.120] 
This is how Charlotte
looks on a smoggy day.

[00:10:34.040] 
It's nothing we're very proud of except
to point out this isn't always the case

[00:10:39.040] 
because this is the way we like to look
at Charlotte when it's fairly clear.

[00:10:44.400] 
When equipment in industry is either

[00:10:46.840] 
not functioning properly or
malfunctions

[00:10:52.360] 
this is what we see.

[00:10:53.960] 
And no longer do we feel that the plumes

[00:10:56.320] 
of black dirty smoke are evidence
of industrial prosperity,

[00:10:59.920] 
but something to be taken care of if our
community is to be lived in.

[00:11:04.680] 
A large hospital showing a malfunctioning
burning device.

[00:11:08.680] 
And what happens to the atmosphere?

[00:11:10.960] 
You're all familiar, of course,

[00:11:12.280] 
with many examples like this.


[00:11:14.414] 
Mecklenburg County is not
unique in having plumes

[00:11:17.920] 
of black smoke from either malfunctioning
or poorly controlled industry.

[00:11:22.120] 
We all are trying to
do something about it.

[00:11:25.280] 
When tires are set afire on dumps,

[00:11:28.280] 
the kind of pollution that is seen here is

[00:11:30.640] 
not only very ugly,
but is a very distressing one

[00:11:34.880] 
so far as health conditions are concerned.

[00:11:38.640] 
The burning of automobiles, too,

[00:11:41.520] 
poses a real problem in most
of the state as well as elsewhere.

[00:11:46.440] 
When the dust collecting apparatus

[00:11:48.400] 
of an industry, as this one fails,
this is what takes place and of course is

[00:11:53.600] 
not very helpful for the people working
or the ones in the immediate community.

[00:11:58.000] 
We hear a considerable amount about
the pollution of transport in the air.

[00:12:03.160] 
This is the trail of a jet
making a landing.

[00:12:06.160] 
The noise, of course,
you cannot hear.

[00:12:09.040] 
This, too, is a pollutant 

[00:12:10.614] 
and is a factor that is increasing
particularly with so much talk

[00:12:14.440] 
of the supersonic transport
which poses special problems of its own.

[00:12:20.160] 
But when we talk about pollution, we
must point our finger at the main polluter.

[00:12:24.800] 
The main polluter being you, me,
and people, lots of people, more people.

[00:12:29.880] 
And they are the ones that contribute
to pollution and maintain it.

[00:12:35.200] 
Thanks a lot, Rice [Dr. Kamp].

[00:12:36.720] 
This is a pretty good overview
of the problem in an urban area.

[00:12:39.920] 
But of course,

[00:12:41.080] 
the problem with the environment is
not limited to urban areas alone.

[00:12:44.920] 
A lot of junk cars spotting the landscape

[00:12:48.920] 
from the East Coast to the
mountains of North Carolina.

[00:12:53.920] 
We have the problem of pesticides

[00:12:55.480] 
that have an impact
on the ecological cycle.

[00:13:01.480] 
They begin to to get into the wildlife,
they get into our food, and so on.

[00:13:06.520] 
And the problem of strip mining,

[00:13:07.840] 
which disturbs the environment.

[00:13:10.071] 
Oil discharges both on land and in water.

[00:13:13.040] 
These are our many problems that are
beginning to trouble us

[00:13:18.280] 
and yet we haven't seen that up to now,

[00:13:21.040] 
that there is any overall obligation
to manage this in one fell swoop.

[00:13:28.480] 
We've had individual pieces of legislation,
but it's only now that we have

[00:13:35.520] 
the prospect of legislation that will
recognize that for North Carolinians,

[00:13:40.680] 
there is a right to
an environment of good quality.

[00:13:44.720] 
And to discuss this, I would like
to ask Skipper to tell us

[00:13:48.160] 
a little bit about this

[00:13:50.129] 
conservation amendment
or the so-called Bill of Rights.

[00:13:54.652] 
- [Mr. Bowles] Environmental Bill of
Rights Amendment.
 - Environmental Bill of Rights.

[00:13:56.200] 
Yes, Dan.
Well, let me say this.

[00:13:57.040] 
In our Constitution, as it's now
written, there's nowhere

[00:14:00.840] 
mentioned the word "environment."

[00:14:03.300] 
So in the basic law we need it.

[00:14:05.840] 
We have good statutes on the

[00:14:07.640] 
books in many areas, but we're
not covered in the Constitution.

[00:14:11.720] 
And I don't claim that this amendment's
going to be the answer to it all.

[00:14:15.160] 
This is not going to answer every

[00:14:16.680] 
environmental problem that we have
in a growing state like North Carolina,

[00:14:21.600] 
but almost everyone I've talked with says
that this is probably the most vital

[00:14:26.760] 
and necessary piece of legislation
that our state faces this year.

[00:14:30.480] 
I expect the best thing to do

[00:14:31.880] 
to explain it would be just to read it.

[00:14:33.960] 
It's short, it's easy to understand.

[00:14:35.080] 
You don't have to be a lawyer,

[00:14:36.120] 
I'm not one, to
understand the amendment.

[00:14:39.000] 
But incidentally, a lawyer can appreciate

[00:14:41.640] 
the value of something in the
Constitution, much more so than you or I.

[00:14:45.720] 
If he has a case and he can point

[00:14:47.440] 
to something in the
Constitution that says this is so 

[00:14:52.800] 
and it's right on the road with
his particular case, he's happy.

[00:14:55.186] 
So is a judge when he's rendering his

[00:14:56.400] 
decision if he can point
to something in the Constitution.

[00:14:59.320] 
So what this is trying to do is to put

[00:15:01.720] 
the environment in the framework of the
basic law of the land, the constitution.

[00:15:05.400] 
Let me read it to you.
Won't take but a moment.

[00:15:07.300] 
It says:

[00:15:09.600] 
"The policy of the state shall be
to conserve and protect its natural

[00:15:12.960] 
resources, environment,
scenic beauty,

[00:15:16.320] 
and all lands, waters, and other resources

[00:15:20.300] 
which are held in trust for
the people of the State.

[00:15:20.480] 
The General Assembly
in implementing this policy

[00:15:22.920] 
shall include adequate provision for
the abatement of air and water pollution

[00:15:26.760] 
and of excessive and unnecessary noise,

[00:15:29.314] 
the protection of agricultural lands,

[00:15:31.280] 
wetlands, estuarine areas, and shorelines,

[00:15:34.240] 
and the development and regulation
of water resources.

[00:15:37.720] 
It should be a public purpose
for the state,

[00:15:40.320] 
any county, or municipality
to make provision 

[00:15:44.240] 
for any of the matters enumerated
in the preceding sentence

[00:15:46.243] 
and to conserve and protect natural

[00:15:48.120] 
resources, the environment,
and scenic beauty.

[00:15:51.000] 
The General Assembly shall further provide
for the acquisition of land and waters,

[00:15:55.200] 
including improvements there
on and any interest therein 

[00:15:58.286] 
and the dedication of any

[00:15:59.520] 
property so acquired or now owned

[00:16:01.957] 
 which because of their natural
beauty, their wilderness character,

[00:16:04.880] 
or geological, ecological,
or historical significance,

[00:16:08.240] 
shall be preserved and administered
for the use and enjoyment of the people."

[00:16:12.560] 
And I particularly like
the last sentence in here.

[00:16:15.160] 
"Property so dedicated shall constitute
the state nature and historical preserve,

[00:16:20.040] 
and they shall not be taken or otherwise
disposed of except by a law 

[00:16:24.171] 
enacted by two

[00:16:25.320] 
successive regular sessions
of the General Assembly."

[00:16:28.680] 
Very simple and easy to understand.

[00:16:31.040] 
Well, thanks
a lot Skipper.

[00:16:32.040] 
I think if we can get this

[00:16:33.720] 
into the Constitution it would
provide a really fine framework

[00:16:37.720] 
for us to add some of the
details of specific legislation 

[00:16:41.514] 
and perhaps make

[00:16:42.920] 
some of the legislation we now
have in the books constitutional.

[00:16:46.200] 
- [Mr. Bowles] Well, it's just
a case of the people

[00:16:47.400] 
saying they want a decent environment this
year, next year, and every year.

[00:16:53.160] 
- [Dr. Oakun] Inasmuch as this is
coming up this legislature,

[00:16:55.480] 
I'd like to mention a few
other items of legislation.

[00:16:59.280] 
I've been helped in getting this together

[00:17:00.960] 
by Milton Heath, the Associate Director
of the Institute of Government,

[00:17:03.693] 
who

[00:17:04.400] 
has been the staff man helping
these legislative study commissions.

[00:17:09.560] 
And these do valuable work between
sessions for preparing legislation.

[00:17:14.840] 
Three study commissions in particular
have done some very useful work

[00:17:18.080] 
and we'll be seeing
the results this spring.

[00:17:20.680] 
Commission on Pesticide Control,

[00:17:22.800] 
a commission studying regional
water supplies. 

[00:17:25.920] 
And this of course is my field
so I feel particularly strongly about it.

[00:17:29.280] 
We have almost
eighteen hundred separate small water

[00:17:32.280] 
supplies in North Carolina
serving three million people.

[00:17:34.800] 
Many of the water supplies are too small

[00:17:36.600] 
to be safe, to be effective,
and efficient in operation.

[00:17:39.480] 
And the only solution is not for each

[00:17:41.760] 
community, each
small community, each

[00:17:44.429] 
mobile home development,
to get its own water supply,

[00:17:46.920] 
but to join together into larger

[00:17:48.720] 
developments so that the best
quality of water can be served.

[00:17:51.720] 
And another commission has been

[00:17:54.560] 
studying strip mining regulation.

[00:17:57.560] 
In addition to that, we have the prospects
of legislation on sediment control,

[00:18:02.360] 
on the oil disposal,

[00:18:05.529] 
junk car control, [?]
scenic river preservation,

[00:18:09.800] 
and possibly some legislation to help

[00:18:12.320] 
individuals sue on behalf of keeping
a quality environment.

[00:18:17.200] 
In running through this
gamut of legislative proposals

[00:18:22.400] 
I notice, however,

[00:18:23.320] 
that there's nothing specifically
in the field of air pollution.

[00:18:25.560] 
Everett [Mr. Knight], are we so 

[00:18:28.143] 
well set up in air pollution we
don't need any new legislation?

[00:18:31.120] 
Possibly not because
we're so well set up,

[00:18:33.320] 
but perhaps because we're
so new in the business.

[00:18:35.880] 
As you know, 
North Carolina's first air pollution

[00:18:38.840] 
control legislation was
enacted in 1967.

[00:18:42.400] 
This legislation assigns certain duties
and responsibilities 

[00:18:46.629] 
to the Board of Water
and Air Resources.

[00:18:49.000] 
And we are now in the process

[00:18:50.840] 
of implementing those authorities
and responsibilities.

[00:18:54.520] 
There is one area though in which

[00:18:57.360] 
there is not specific authority
contained in the '67 legislation.

[00:19:01.720] 
This relates to the emissions
from motor vehicles.

[00:19:06.480] 
Undoubtedly there will be

[00:19:08.414] 
 legislation introduced
into the next session

[00:19:11.760] 
that will deal with the problem of 

[00:19:14.300] 
the inspection of the
mission control devices

[00:19:16.800] 
required on motor vehicle engines
beginning with the 1968 model.

[00:19:22.280] 
There may also be legislation that will

[00:19:25.600] 
provide authority to the Board of Water
and Air Resources to establish emission

[00:19:30.560] 
control standards for pre-68 models
and to provide a program under which

[00:19:36.560] 
the emission from motor vehicles
would actually be tested.

[00:19:41.000] 
This, I think, is entirely appropriate in

[00:19:43.880] 
accord with the whole problem, inasmuch
as the transportation industry, as

[00:19:50.400] 
Dr. Kamp has already
referred to, is normally

[00:19:53.000] 
considered to be the single largest
source category of air pollution.

[00:19:57.960] 
It seems we'll have legislation,

[00:20:00.040] 
in fact we have had legislation

[00:20:01.440] 
on the books for many years in water
pollution control legislation.

[00:20:04.440] 
We've had nuisance

[00:20:07.320] 
laws that have

[00:20:09.680] 
been on the books that could be used
to avoid some of the pollution problems.

[00:20:13.680] 
Yet we haven't had nearly the impact

[00:20:15.760] 
on improving the quality of the
environment that we should.

[00:20:18.040] 
What has been the problem?
Is legislation enough?

[00:20:22.520] 
Is that all we need is going

[00:20:23.840] 
to the legislature and they'll enact a law and
that will take care of the environment?

[00:20:26.600] 
What's the really pressing problem here?

[00:20:30.080] 
- [Mr. Bowles] I think Everett
can tell you it's money.

[00:20:30.560] 
Well, I would like to
respond in part to that 

[00:20:33.986] 
by pointing out first
that neither regulations

[00:20:36.960] 
nor standards make the quality
of the environment any better than it was

[00:20:41.000] 
when the standards or
regulations were enacted.

[00:20:43.800] 
It's only through the implementation

[00:20:45.800] 
of those authorities that we
make any improvements at all.

[00:20:49.560] 
And in all of that,

[00:20:50.560] 
regulatory agencies carry out their
statutory responsibilities.

[00:20:55.880] 
It is absolutely essential that they be

[00:20:58.120] 
provided with the staff and the resources
necessary to carry out those functions.

[00:21:03.440] 
One of the other
problems that, in addition

[00:21:05.840] 
to matters relating to staffing
and administrative

[00:21:12.000] 
matters, is the matter of who

[00:21:14.800] 
in the final analysis
is going to pay the bill.

[00:21:17.880] 
Up until now in North Carolina,

[00:21:20.040] 
there has been a great deal of public
apathy relative to environmental matters.

[00:21:25.560] 
And in my view, in
the final analysis, it's

[00:21:29.200] 
the cost of the control of the quality

[00:21:32.200] 
of the environment is going to have to be
paid for by the consumer

[00:21:35.720] 
either through increased taxes or through
increased cost of goods and services.

[00:21:42.720] 
Well this is quite clear
that we will need the additional funds.

[00:21:46.440] 
And while taxes is a dirty word,

[00:21:50.960] 
if we are going to do some of this
regulation, and regulation to make it most

[00:21:56.280] 
economical for the citizens
of North Carolina, it will have to be done

[00:21:59.720] 
through some social organization,
which means taxes.

[00:22:03.900] 
 Because it's very easy

[00:22:05.280] 
to administer something
that says, "thou shalt not"

[00:22:07.920] 
and then if somebody does it, you arrest
them or you put them out of business.

[00:22:11.120] 
But to have some kind of a
program that administers the

[00:22:17.840] 
operations within the state in a way

[00:22:20.040] 
to preserve the quality of the environment
and yet not to do damage to

[00:22:24.600] 
all of the economic interests,
requires administration of a high quality,

[00:22:27.800] 
technical supervision
of a high quality.

[00:22:30.360] 
And this, of course, means spending
the time and spending the money.

[00:22:34.440] 
And this is taxes.

[00:22:35.680] 
But of course, this is
not all the problem.

[00:22:38.080] 
We also have the problem of 

[00:22:39.920] 
who's going to pay for
the remedial measures, 

[00:22:42.157] 
who's going to pick up the tab for it?

[00:22:44.120] 
I don't think there's any doubt
about who's going to pay for it, Dan.

[00:22:47.280] 
As Everett said, the
consumer is going pay for it.

[00:22:49.280] 
Whether he's paying for it
through taxes or because we

[00:22:52.920] 
require CPNL and Duke to do 

[00:22:55.543] 
more about thermal pollution
perhaps than they should.

[00:22:58.280] 
We'll end up paying more than
we should in the form of power bills.

[00:23:03.360] 
If we indulge in overkill,
that favorite American pastime.

[00:23:07.520] 
Well, in order to avoid this overkill,
in order to avoid strict regulation

[00:23:12.280] 
that says "you shan't raise
the temperature more than

[00:23:15.000] 
one degree or three degrees,"
we have to know what we're talking about.

[00:23:18.120] 
We have to be able to take enough samples.

[00:23:21.080] 
We have to have enough qualified people.

[00:23:22.760] 
So this then goes back to money

[00:23:24.560] 
for the regulatory agency to treat
the industry in the state fairly.

[00:23:29.040] 
It's been said that perhaps
for North Carolina, and we are very

[00:23:32.800] 
concerned with our environment,
perhaps this legislation

[00:23:36.000] 
may have a detrimental effect on 

[00:23:37.729] 
recruiting industry and
manufacturing it [?].

[00:23:41.800] 
[?]

[00:23:44.520] 
I think that in addition to the money,

[00:23:46.800] 
there has to be a desire
on the part of the consumer.

[00:23:49.640] 
And while it's quite true,

[00:23:50.920] 
as Skipper pointed out, I think we
should all be careful to avoid overkill.

[00:23:54.920] 
The options are so few now. [?]

[00:23:57.229] 
 The consumer is faced
with the fact that

[00:24:00.720] 
he's not too much
interested in the technology.

[00:24:02.880] 
He knows he has an environment that

[00:24:04.600] 
he's not too much concerned about
and [?] live with it.

[00:24:07.120] 
And he is willing to pay his share.

[00:24:09.520] 
So that I feel the motivation of
people, just as people,

[00:24:15.000] 
something that we're
trying to do in this program,

[00:24:17.040] 
for example,
to inform and acquaint people

[00:24:19.800] 
will then provide the backing and support
for carrying out, we hope,

[00:24:23.640] 
a reasonable method of control
to provide money, first of all,

[00:24:28.640] 
and then just a little bit
was mentioned about people.

[00:24:31.200] 
And I think we ought to throw this right
in your lap as an academician.

[00:24:34.920] 
Who's going to train all these

[00:24:36.280] 
environmentalists that we
need carry out these programs?

[00:24:38.640] 
Well, that's a good point.

[00:24:39.920] 
Everett mentioned
before the program began

[00:24:42.040] 
that he hoped to get
thirty-six new people for his staff.

[00:24:46.000] 
We don't know where that many
people are available in North Carolina.

[00:24:50.000] 
Where are you going to get them?
Are they already ready to go?

[00:24:54.240] 
- [Mr. Knight] Obviously, they are
not now all ready to go.

[00:24:57.800] 
And as Dr. Kamp points out,
there's going to have to be expansions

[00:25:01.640] 
of training programs
in this particular area.

[00:25:04.440] 
We've been working with the technical
institutes on the development

[00:25:07.880] 
of curriculums to train
technician type personnel.

[00:25:12.080] 
Your institution has for years been

[00:25:14.760] 
doing a good job in the training
of graduate level personnel.

[00:25:19.320] 
So it is going to take the combined
efforts of all of our educational systems,

[00:25:24.560] 
both the technical institutes, the
community colleges and our universities,

[00:25:29.200] 
to provide us with the kind of personnel
that we're going to have to have.

[00:25:32.880] 
Well, it's going to be a real problem
because we've had difficulty getting

[00:25:37.280] 
the number of qualified people at all
levels, both as technicians as well as

[00:25:40.920] 
the highly trained, without investing
yet in environmental quality control.

[00:25:48.480] 
But once we begin to
really be interested in it

[00:25:51.120] 
the numbers we'll need
are going to be very great.

[00:25:52.920] 
And this means increased, again, increased
support for the educational institutions.

[00:25:57.960] 
Somebody had mentioned before,
and I hope it's true,

[00:26:00.240] 
I believe it is.

[00:26:01.480] 
Many of the younger people have a feeling
of wanting to serve, dedication to improve

[00:26:06.600] 
the environment that, after all,
they have to live in.

[00:26:08.880] 
Older people like myself
are not all that concerned.

[00:26:12.240] 
But I'm hoping that this
dedication will lead to recruitment

[00:26:15.920] 
if they understand what the
problem is and all of us do our share

[00:26:19.280] 
with the help of the people
back home, wherever home may be.

[00:26:22.480] 
- [Dr. Oakun] Well,

[00:26:23.760] 
we see some of the things that need to be
done, in particularly legislation, money.

[00:26:29.520] 
What can the viewer who we're addressing
now, what's his role in all of this?

[00:26:34.800] 
- [Mr. Bowles] I think 
Rice hit it there.

[00:26:36.380] 
They can join these
young organizations,

[00:26:37.920] 

the Conservation
Council of North Carolina.

[00:26:40.200] 

And they can put
pressure on the members

[00:26:41.880] 
of the General Assembly
to approve—not me,

[00:26:43.760] 
I'm ready.

[00:26:44.280] 
You don't need to put any pressure on me,
but put pressure on the members

[00:26:47.880] 
of the General Assembly,
show their interest in the environment.

[00:26:50.520] 
And that's the way you're
going to get the money.

[00:26:51.920] 
It's going to have to come from a reaction
from the grassroots people.

[00:26:57.720] 
I'm hoping we'll do our share and I
know we will in our own bailiwicks

[00:27:01.880] 

of informing, keeping people 

[00:27:04.480] 
up to date on what's going on, what is
reasonable, what can be done.

[00:27:07.720] 
And I hope that the total procedure
will get us all where we want to go.

[00:27:12.160] 
We know what we want.

[00:27:13.760] 
What we're having difficulty with is

[00:27:15.200] 
exactly how to go about
going and doing it.

[00:27:18.000] 
Well, it seems to be clear
that what we need is legislation.

[00:27:22.440] 
We need funds.

[00:27:23.680] 
But most of all, we need an educated,

[00:27:26.157] 
a really educated public so that they are

[00:27:28.920] 
aware and support 

[00:27:31.000] 
this type of—

[00:27:32.200] 
- [Mr. Bowles] And there's people like you
who've done a good job on that, Dan.

[00:27:36.880] 
[laughs]
Now we've got to turn it over to Ken.

[00:27:37.720] 
Thank you, gentlemen,
for an enlightening discussion.

[00:27:40.680] 
And as we close with this beautiful aerial
film of Baldhead Island,

[00:27:46.240] 
it's a reminder that the preservation
of our environmental heritage is

[00:27:50.520] 
everybody's business if we want
to survive on this planet Earth.

[00:27:55.029] 
[music]